unfiltered therapists podcast Episode transcripts

Kerri Ann (00:02.224)

Hi and welcome to Unfiltered Therapist, the podcast from Kindred Roots Therapy. You will notice that our typical host, Allegra Taylor, is not here today. My name is Kerri Ann I'm the business manager at Kindred Roots and Allegra has asked the rest of us on the team to step up and talk about some things on this podcast that might be of interest to our listeners.

So I am here today with Kristy Thackeray. And Kristy is a senior therapist on our team, recently has joined Kindred Roots full-time, which we are delighted about. If you have listened to, what podcast was that, Kristy? Do you know the number?

Kristy Thackeray (00:35.598)

Hello.

Kristy Thackeray (00:48.374)

Thank you.

Kristy Thackeray (00:54.35)

Um, well, I think it was like two, two podcasts ago. Um, a therapist turn to share. Yeah.

Kerri Ann (01:00.456)

Yes, so Allegra did interview Kristy about her remarkable life so far. So if you haven't had a chance to listen to that one, go back and listen to it. And I'm here today not as a therapist, because I am not a therapist, but I'm happy to always function slightly unfiltered. And one of the things that we have talked about doing with this podcast is...

having kind of a different format, not always an interview sort of style, but sometimes just a discussion. We have a lot of interesting discussions around kindred roots and one that Kristy and I seem to find ourselves having regularly is about parenting. Because unlike most of the team members here, we are how do we say this a little bit longer in the tooth than them?

Kristy Thackeray (01:58.354)

season seasons or aged like a fine wine.

Kerri Ann (02:02.108)

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I am by far actually the oldest member of the team, even a decade older than Kristy. But just the way life goes, we're kind of at the same stage of life right now, where our children are adults or close to it. And we are able to kind of, at least I find anyways, I'm looking back on my parenting.

journey a little bit now, a bit of nostalgia, some reflection on parenting. And then we have other members of the team here who are, you know, parenting young kids or just, you know, talking about having kids or, you know, they're at that stage. So whether they like it or not, Kristy and I are imparting our wisdom. Parenting in hindsight, they say hindsight is 2020. So that's what we were hoping to

talk about with the listeners today, just kind of share our perspectives on parenting. So yeah, thanks for joining me on this, Kristy. I appreciate it.

Kristy Thackeray (03:04.974)

And yeah, exciting.

Kristy Thackeray (03:11.714)

Thank you for having me. Do you want me to just start kind of my, where I'm at with my parenting? Okay.

Kerri Ann (03:18.904)

Sure, yeah, let's share with everyone, like, I guess, the basics of our, how we got into parenting.

Kristy Thackeray (03:24.154)

Okay, so I was a young mom. I was 19 when I had my twin girls. So they're 22 now. And I recently have found myself as an empty nester this past summer. And yeah, so that's a big change in our family. But yeah, so I was quite a young mom. And what about you, Kerri Ann Yeah, I was a baby having babies.

Kerri Ann (03:50.08)

A teen mom.

Kerri Ann (03:54.012)

Yeah, so I would assume it was an unplanned pregnancy.

Kristy Thackeray (03:57.838)

Unplanned pregnancy and I wasn't married to the biological father. And I know we've had conversations about this as well. So I did have help. I lived with my parents for a good portion of like when my girls were young. I did raise them. We attempted to kind of move out.

be away. So it is challenging to raise kids with your own parents, kind of in the background. I met my husband when my girls were six years old. And so he's been the, I guess, kind of the father figure. They call him dad, that sort of thing. When they turned six, we ended up moving in together and then we got married when they were nine. So he's been the majority caregiver as well, along with me in that journey.

But when they were younger yet, I was raising them alone with my parents mostly.

Kerri Ann (05:00.108)

Yeah, I can't even imagine what that was like, especially at that age.

Kristy Thackeray (05:03.942)

It's a, you know what, we've talked about this too, just that confidence in parenting, and I even shared with you, I didn't have that confidence. If I thought something wasn't right, or I didn't want to do something, I did struggle managing that. Even so, if you think about young moms going to all these different groups, whether it's, I don't know what the groups are now, taking your kids to little dance or swimmers, or like...

baby yoga, like, I always observed how the other parents interacted and I always felt like, I have no idea what I'm doing. And my kids were also preemie, right? Like they were two months premature. So, you know, by the time they were like, I don't know, even six months, they weren't like that, you know, if you follow that like scale of kind of their growth development, they weren't actually at that six month chronological development. So, yeah.

Kerri Ann (05:42.256)

Thanks for watching.

Kerri Ann (05:59.968)

Yeah, yeah. So yours was a different experience than mine, for sure. When I was in my 20s, I was very focused on my career and that kind of thing, and actually had no plans to have children until I was like in my early 30s. And then when I saw that my friends were having kids, I started, you know, it started melted me a little bit. And

Kristy Thackeray (06:04.199)

Yeah.

Kerri Ann (06:27.18)

Yeah, I decided that was something that was important to me, mostly because I saw the sense of purpose that it seemed to bring to people's lives. And even just the idea of having this person who genetically represented, you know, myself and my partner. And it was all that romantic kind of idealized version of parenting. So yeah, I was 31 when I had my oldest and then 33 when I had my daughter.

Um, which, you know, obviously we were very, we were well established by then financially. Um, that kind of thing. I don't have any family in the province and didn't then either. So I definitely had, you know, same sort of independent parenting experience that you had, but, but very different. Like we actually, we actually hadn't even come around to deciding that we were going to have kids. We were still like talking, should we, shouldn't we?

And then we got pregnant because obviously the universe had different plans for us for sure. So.

Kristy Thackeray (07:32.202)

And, and Kerri Ann even when you were that age, having your children, like, looking at your friends, were they around that age as well? So did you have that kind of community sense, I guess, when you had your kids?

Kerri Ann (07:44.34)

Yeah, and probably more so than you did. Because yeah, I was just thinking about what I would have been like for you walking into like a parenting, like, you know, mom and tot group or whatever as like a 19 year old.

Kristy Thackeray (07:56.754)

Yeah, they would have probably been like, Oh, okay, that's so nice. She brought her sisters. Yeah.

Kerri Ann (08:00.192)

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. No. Yeah. So, but you know, what I find the most interesting about this is that we both got to parenting from very different roots, different times of our lives and that kind of thing. But here we are now, you know, that many more years later. My son is 20. My daughter is actually...

technically not an adult yet. She is 17, she'll be 18 in a couple months. But due to circumstances in her life, opportunities that have come to her, we've actually, my now husband and I, because there was a divorce in there as well, when my kids were eight and 10 years old. So we can have a whole different podcast discussion about step parenting.

Kristy Thackeray (08:56.066)

Mm-hmm or bled and blended family. Yeah Yes My gosh, we totally should for Father's Day

Kerri Ann (08:56.496)

and the amazing men that we have found that to raise someone else's children. We should, yes. But yeah, so we actually also have been empty nesters since the summer. So it's been six months or so, and that has really made me nostalgic and reflective on those younger years.

And I think that combined with being in this workspace now where most of our coworkers are at such different stages of life, and I feel a bit like the Kindred roots mom that I need to be giving some advice is what brings us here today. So we talked, you and I have talked a little bit about like the big takeaways from parenting that if we could share anything with our younger selves.

or our younger coworkers or friends or any of the listeners who might be, you know, at a different stage of their parenting journey than we are, what sort of things do we want to tell them? So we came up with a bit of a list. Do you have the list there? Do you want to go into the first one or you want me to?

Kristy Thackeray (09:58.275)

Mm-hmm.

Kristy Thackeray (10:01.552)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kristy Thackeray (10:09.23)

Well, we could we can yeah, I mean, I jotted down some stuff, but we could go ahead and so I think the first one like what you think is important is not important. And we can kind of talk a little bit about that like kind of dive a little deeper into that. So for you, Kerri Ann, when we say that like what you think is important isn't important. What do you think of when you when I say that out loud?

Kerri Ann (10:23.407)

You're late.

Kerri Ann (10:37.484)

Well, when I look back now at the amount of time and energy and resources I spent just on things like... I mean, obviously the kids have to eat, but like meal times and nap times and cleaning the house and you know, chasing after them to clean their rooms and pick up their toys and... I don't know, all that kind of stuff now seems so not important. Like I wish I had...

spent more time having, I don't know, connecting with them about real things than what now just seems so unimportant. Even like I think about how much I spent like sleepless nights wondering if my son was ever gonna learn how to tie his shoes. Like it was things like that where why did I not just take a step back and be like he is not going to be the 20 year old who wears velcro shoes. It's fine, right? Like yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (11:24.594)

Mm-mm. Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (11:34.07)

And even if he is, is that really like, who cares? So he likes Velcro shoes at 20, right? Like whose expectation is that? Or, yeah, I love that. And so, yeah, interesting. Like we have these like thoughts in our head that it's like, oh my gosh, he's never gonna be able to, and they're really absolute, like never.

Kerri Ann (11:36.784)

I'm sorry.

Exactly.

Kerri Ann (11:45.452)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (11:59.614)

And it's like, well, you know, give the kid a break. Like how old was he when he was trying to tie his shoes?

Kerri Ann (11:59.619)

Yeah.

Kerri Ann (12:04.848)

I don't know, grade one probably.

Kristy Thackeray (12:06.878)

Yeah. Um, I remember fighting with my girls so much about what they were wearing. It's like those colors don't go together. And it's like, who cares? Like, why did I, and those cause so many fights. Like you can't go to school looking like that. Brush your hair, dude. Like, you know, and if I, yeah.

Kerri Ann (12:13.424)

Mm-hmm.

Kerri Ann (12:30.208)

Yes, me too. Yes. Oh, my daughter and her hair. Yeah, she was and now knowing her better, I think she probably didn't brush her hair because I was telling her to brush her hair. She actually probably wanted to have nice hair at school, but she was like so independent. Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (12:45.286)

Yeah, and like, and...

Kristy Thackeray (12:50.058)

Well, and then like we're harping mom, right? Like we're just, yeah, yeah.

Kerri Ann (12:55.348)

Yes, and she wore the same shirt to school for like weeks on end at times. And yeah, most of the fights that we had when she was young were related to things like that, that really do not matter.

Kristy Thackeray (13:06.932)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And all the time we spent just like focusing on that, right? When we were missing opportunities for them actually to like just be their authentic self. You know, if your kid wants to wear different colored socks, let them. Who cares? You know, if...

Kerri Ann (13:11.605)

They just really...

Kerri Ann (13:27.02)

Yeah. And instead they would have felt judgment from me on those kinds of things, right? Which now looking back, I wish that hadn't been the case. But...

Kristy Thackeray (13:35.039)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (13:38.374)

Yeah. And even I was thinking, I follow a lot of like, different memes on Instagram about even like eating disorders, like I remember even just as like growing up with my mom, I do know my mom never I can't recall a time she ever commented on her body. And I was actually very aware of that for myself to be very like, I mean, being a young mom is hard. But I also

Even now I'm like really careful about how I say like, oh, I'm too fat or I'm this, because we actually don't realize like our kids are watching us too. Like as much as we're like, you know, harping on them for things that really don't matter in the big scheme of it all, we also have to be careful how we're treating ourselves when they're watching. And I wish I would have maybe been more graceful with myself at that age.

Kerri Ann (14:13.733)

Oh yeah.

Kerri Ann (14:23.668)

Absolutely true.

Kerri Ann (14:29.896)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true. And you're lucky that you didn't have a parent that talked that way, but I mean, I think it's a generational thing too. There was a lot, you know, there was a lot of body shaming when I was young, and I too was really careful not to take that approach with my kids. Yeah, so.

Kristy Thackeray (14:31.511)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (14:40.348)

Maybe, yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (14:51.89)

Yeah, yeah. And even sometimes like, well, I can actually imagine, and raising kids and our like time that we did is also really different too, because sometimes, like I will admit, sometimes I use the iPad as a babysitting mechanism tool. But you know, sometimes like I wish I would have, instead of like always using it so I could get something done, I wish I would have sat with them more.

Kerri Ann (15:20.78)

Mm-hmm. Yes, that's true. I did the same thing and used the TV in particular for to put them in front of when I was going to get things done. Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (15:30.922)

Right, because we're trying to think, like, cooking, right? Cleaning, like, our house has to be a certain way, and we're missing out on those opportunities to connect, really, yeah. So, not important. So when your kid comes home with, actually, here's just a personal story. I will never forget, I came home with a really bad report, card one day, I think it was like grade six, and the two like...

Kerri Ann (15:35.12)

Okay.

Kerri Ann (15:40.6)

Yeah, exactly. So yeah, the stuff that you think is important, not necessarily, yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (15:59.498)

science and social. I got a really bad mark and I was so worried what my parents would think. And you know what? It's so interesting because looking back on that, they were like, okay, like, let's try better next time. You know, like, let's see how we can make it better. What can we do to make that better? And I didn't get yelled at, I didn't get like scolded. There was no shame in it. I had shame because I thought I was disappointing them.

Kerri Ann (16:14.998)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (16:26.498)

So when my kids like going to school too, like if your kid comes home with a bad report card, find out why. Like what's going on for you instead of like yelling and you know, because telling them they're, you know, like saying things like you're stupid is absolutely just gonna like break them, right? Like, yeah.

Kerri Ann (16:33.632)

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Kerri Ann (16:46.568)

Absolutely. Yeah. And even you with your poor report card look at you now. You had poor grades in social? Like what?

Kristy Thackeray (16:51.214)

Yeah, I should. Well, yeah, they were they were the worst grades you could get. I don't know. I think I just wasn't like, I don't know. It was a grade six. I remember that was like, oh, my God.

Kerri Ann (17:03.148)

And now here you are with your masters of social work. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's what I mean. Even, yeah, it doesn't matter in the scheme of things. Some kids aren't good learners, and so, yeah. Anyway.

Kristy Thackeray (17:05.234)

Masters yeah, I mean look at me now Yeah, yeah

And what did matter was how my parents responded. Yeah.

Kerri Ann (17:20.252)

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Okay, another thing, the second piece of advice or that we had identified was in parenting, there is just so much info out there. And most of it is bullshit. Right? So like, I remember, I, so my son was born in 2004. So it was kind of

Kristy Thackeray (17:37.366)

Yeah.

Kerri Ann (17:45.796)

wasn't pre internet but it wasn't quite as pervasive as it is now. So I can't even, yeah probably. I can't even imagine how much information and parents today, young parents must just be bombarded with information. For me at the time it was like parenting magazine and what to expect when you're expecting and you know what to expect during the first year and you know but

Kristy Thackeray (17:48.586)

Isn't that like when texting started?

Kristy Thackeray (18:01.742)

Oh my gosh.

Kristy Thackeray (18:07.586)

Mm-hmm.

Kerri Ann (18:15.68)

Yeah, now it's just crazy. And I think, I mean, even this podcast, like people take what you want, leave what you don't. That, you know, there's no way that you can absorb and implement all the parental advice that is out there. And most of it is not going to apply to you and your family anyway.

Kristy Thackeray (18:41.95)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I want to add that and actually I say that to my clients even in like session like hey This might resonate for you if it does try it out if it doesn't leave it right like because you're always gonna find something like whether you're reading the Research articles or you're reading a book or whatever it is. You're always gonna find something that doesn't fit your situation And you can take like tidbits from it and see but at the end of the day like

Yeah, take what you want and leave the rest. Yeah, I love that.

Kerri Ann (19:13.748)

Yeah. And ultimately, like even if even if you come up with what is a brilliant strategy in your mind for one child, chances are once you get to the next child, it's not going to apply to them anyway.

Kristy Thackeray (19:27.966)

Yeah, so your children are adult, children are like night and day.

Kerri Ann (19:35.385)

Oh, night and day, yeah, for sure.

Kristy Thackeray (19:36.798)

Yeah, yep. And I have twins and they're night and day, right? So yeah, one strategy does not work for the other. Like, and that's okay. They're two different people.

Kerri Ann (19:49.292)

Yeah, oh, absolutely. Yeah, so I think that's a really important thing to keep in mind. And you're gonna get advice from parents and everybody else. And even that, like the information, like a lot of us decide how we're going to parent based on how we were parented.

Kristy Thackeray (19:51.135)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (19:59.038)

Non-parents.

Kerri Ann (20:11.348)

And that can be, you know, in one realm, you want to be parent just like your parents, or you want to parent nothing like your parents, depending on, you know, what your experience was. And like the pendulum just swings from side to side, from generation to generation, I'm sure of it. But I think, you know, even that, so like, let's assume that someone had a terrible, terrible childhood, and so then they, you know, dedicate their life to becoming the perfect parent.

Kristy Thackeray (20:22.238)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (20:28.027)

Oh yeah.

Kerri Ann (20:41.068)

Well, I'm here to tell you that at some point your kid is going to still end up in therapy because you set a high bar of perfection that they are not, you know, comfortable with. And you'll, there's no such thing as a perfect parent.

Kristy Thackeray (21:00.266)

Yeah, yeah, perfection is not attainable and it doesn't even exist. So your view of perfection will always, until I do this, until I do this, and it's never gonna be enough then, which then you're actually like, what are you telling your kids as they grow up then? You're not enough. Even if you're not specifically saying that to them, you're inadvertently, you know, kind of laying that foundation for that cognitive belief. Yeah.

Kerri Ann (21:13.205)

Exactly.

Kerri Ann (21:18.625)

Yeah.

Kerri Ann (21:27.096)

Yeah, so you really kind of have to let that shit go and really figure it out as you go along. And you know, I've been very honest with my kids about that. Like I have never claimed to be a perfect parent and I don't think I'm a terrible parent, but I've often told them that I'm just doing the best I can with the information I have at the time. And the information changes all the time too. So, and then in...

Kristy Thackeray (21:30.283)

Let it go.

Kristy Thackeray (21:37.055)

Mm-hmm.

Kristy Thackeray (21:54.144)

Yeah.

Kerri Ann (21:56.66)

It's also, I think, important, and you and I have talked about this, that when you do screw up as a parent, to be able to go to your kids and say, I'm sorry, I really, really screwed that up, and I shouldn't have yelled, or I shouldn't, I should have done this differently, or whatever. I think that is the kind of information that they need from you, and that actually helps build their character more than anything you'd read in a magazine.

Kristy Thackeray (22:05.972)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (22:23.11)

Yeah. And then your kids can actually see like, wow, like mom, dad, they're human, right? And give yourself that grace. But and then also, in that same like token cut, you know, looking at your kids are not perfect either give them grace. And that's the that is the reality we are gonna mess up. I actually used to think

Kerri Ann (22:42.551)

Yes.

Kristy Thackeray (22:47.978)

It's interesting that I have like got to this kind of full circle moment. We're having this conversation because I used to actually like have a really hard time with admitting when I was wrong or that I messed up and it wasn't probably till the last like probably 10 years maybe even a little longer like starting to really delve into like that and now like I'll tell my kids I'm like, I'm really sorry like I that was not like I did not

act and behave in a way that is in line with my values. I really like I'll even say I flipped my lid. I you know, because I do tend to previously like that was kind of my go to right when I got really emotionally dysregulated. Right. And that's the thing we're human your kids are going to get emotionally dysregulated too. And it was really hard for me to separate that. So I would say like, I'm really sorry. That was not nice of me or that you know.

I mean, now that my kids are adult, the language is a little more colorful.

Kerri Ann (23:47.31)

No doubt.

Kristy Thackeray (23:48.394)

And they do the same. They're like, hey, mom, sorry that we said that, or, you know, like that's, and that's just like giving grace to each other, acknowledging we mess up. We're human. I think the world could, could use a little more of that.

Kerri Ann (23:57.072)

Mm-hmm.

Kerri Ann (24:00.314)

Yeah.

It sure could. Yeah, no doubt. So yeah, I think that's an important one just kind of, it really, I feel like the information is out there, but it's figuring out what works for you and what works for your family. And yeah, if I think. Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (24:04.59)

Thank you.

Kristy Thackeray (24:19.83)

Yeah, and then ask your kid, right? And that's kind of part of like accepting, accepting their authenticity, right? Like letting them just kind of show up who they are.

Kerri Ann (24:34.38)

Yeah, yeah, I really feel like your home, their home should be their safe space, more than anywhere, right? So that means like, yeah, coming as you are and yes, yeah, and not feel like you have to filter around your parents or, you know.

Kristy Thackeray (24:41.92)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (24:46.806)

and it's safe to do that, yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (24:53.318)

Yeah, you know that actually reminds me when my girls were little they did they struggled like so going to school, you know, keeping that kind of contained all day and then you get home and you and parents might notice this too, like they have blowouts, temper tantrums at home with but that's because that's the safe place to let it out of the container. When I've been trying to hold it in all day, which is really exhausting. It really is right so

that again goes back to kind of giving them grace and like allowing them to have that safe space.

Kerri Ann (25:26.28)

Yeah. And people always say that, oh, your kids are so well behaved around, you know, at our house. And I was like, oh, like at my house, they're crazy. But I think that that's part of it, right? That that's almost a compliment. That means that, yeah, they feel like they can let loose like that at home. So.

Kristy Thackeray (25:35.042)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (25:38.866)

I always get... Yeah.

Yeah. And then you know that you've sent them out to like other people's houses and they aren't behaved. Wow! I have done a good decent job.

Kerri Ann (25:49.076)

Yeah. Well, because parenting, it's so hard that way. It's like, it's the only job where you actually don't know how you're doing the whole time. Like it's like a 20-year job where you've never had a performance review or, you know, any of that. I used to, when the kids were little and I was home a lot alone with the kids,

Kristy Thackeray (26:01.066)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (26:12.194)

That's so true.

Kerri Ann (26:16.492)

I really loved to shovel the driveway because I felt like I could actually see what I accomplished during that period of time instead of like spending, you know, the entire day parenting the kids and not really know. So did I do okay today? I'm not sure.

Kristy Thackeray (26:22.055)

Oh, yes.

Kristy Thackeray (26:33.218)

Um, Kareem, I love that. I love that you just said that, like comparing it, like there's no performance review. And you know, it is, even if they're like, you could sit your kids down and have a little meeting and it's gonna be really just like, kind of, you know, it's their own perception too. But it just also makes me think about how we are really quick to judge other parents too. And that's not helpful. Like.

Kerri Ann (26:59.788)

No, absolutely not.

Kristy Thackeray (27:01.734)

But then also I was just thinking too as we were talking about that too about like just in general judging and other parents like just Allow people to you know what like they're raising their kids how it works for them. Let them they're raising their kids How it works for them let them like you're raising your kids how it works for you You would want people to let you do that, too Yeah

Kerri Ann (27:24.5)

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the big problem there that brings us to our next point is just the danger in expectation. Yeah, whether it's your expectations of your kids based on, you know, your own childhood or something that you would like to improve in yourself, you feel like you get this chance to do it with your kids.

Kristy Thackeray (27:34.878)

Yeah, it was a big one.

Kristy Thackeray (27:54.406)

Yeah. And, um, and it's really disappointing for yourself and causing lots of stress and conflict that really doesn't need to happen because you're pushing something on your kids that, right? We have our own values, beliefs, and when these little people, you know, kind of as they grow, we like, we have this expectation that they're going to take on some of these values, beliefs. And so, you know, even for me, like,

Kerri Ann (27:54.436)

but it doesn't work that way.

Kristy Thackeray (28:22.454)

when my kids were little, I was going to church quite often. And I was like, they're gonna go to church too. And then as they got older, that just wasn't a priority. And I was like, why am I fighting this with them? And that's just like one, right? There's expectation about what sports they'll play or how they'll dress or how they'll function or their values and expectation leads to disappointment for us and for them.

Kerri Ann (28:45.338)

Yeah.

Kerri Ann (28:51.808)

Yes, disappointment and conflict and waste of time and money. Even when I think about all the sports that I put my kids in over the years. And I was sharing with you, I played soccer when I was a kid. So I was really adamant that my kids were of course gonna play soccer and they were gonna be great at it. Well.

Probably because I put that expectation on them, neither one of them wanted to. But yeah, it's societal expectations too. It's, you know, after you're done school, you're gonna do, you're gonna go to university and you're gonna get a job and then you're gonna get married and have your own kids and I'm gonna be a grandma. All that is out the window.

Kristy Thackeray (29:15.366)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (29:24.776)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (29:32.974)

Yeah, yep. And, and that's okay. Right? Like, that's okay. And also, I think there is we have this idea how life should go. So even for me, like, when I had kids so young, you know, I had a lot of work to do around that. Because, you know, I did come from a family, it's like, well, you get married before you have kids, and that's how life should go. And so I think I've trained my parents that, you know, to let go of those expectations, and just like, allow your kids

And it's interesting too, because if you do that, you'll actually see how they will start to come to you over other people. Like I've noticed that even with my own girls, like I fully accept everything. I might not like it, but it's also not my life. And I have to understand that and accept that.

Kerri Ann (30:07.284)

Yes.

Kerri Ann (30:17.59)

Absolutely.

Yeah, and honestly that brings us to the like the fourth point and I think is the most important one and probably the hardest to practice is actually that acceptance not approval. So and you know because all kids I mean it's part of being a kid and learning and failing and they some of them make stupid

Kristy Thackeray (30:37.778)

Mm-hmm.

Kerri Ann (30:48.364)

choices, like my kids included for sure, have made some really questionable choices and

Kristy Thackeray (30:57.09)

But I'm gonna challenge you. Are it questionable to you? Or question, right?

Kerri Ann (31:03.952)

to me, to society, to... Yes. Yeah. Yeah, totally. But, yes, and I made it quite clear to them that I do not approve of what you're doing, but, or saying, or being, or whatever, who you're hanging out with, any of those things. I do not approve, but I accept.

Kristy Thackeray (31:06.398)

Well, again, it's an expectation, right? Yeah. But, but you still love them no matter what.

Kristy Thackeray (31:33.098)

Mm-hmm.

Kerri Ann (31:33.38)

And more than once I have said to them, I gave you life, but you get to live it. So, and I'm just, and I really feel like that more than anything else is why I do have a good relationship with my children right now. I mean, that could change, who knows? It could change tomorrow. But, but because they always knew that...

Kristy Thackeray (31:39.011)

I love that.

Kerri Ann (31:59.596)

I mean, I was still gonna give them my perspective on things because I think a big part of our job as parents is coaching. But I wanted to always make sure that they were never afraid to tell me anything based on my reactions. They felt comfortable telling me their deepest, darkest secrets or knowing that I was still gonna be a safe place to land.

Kristy Thackeray (32:28.243)

Mm-hmm.

Kerri Ann (32:28.636)

And that was it too, is that if they did make some terrible decision and had to live out the consequences of that, that they had a soft place to land and they knew that mom would be there no matter what. She might not look happy about it, but yeah. Yeah, and yeah, it's not about approval, it's about acceptance.

Kristy Thackeray (32:45.014)

Yep, but you'll be, but you will, you will be there. Yeah, yeah, I love that.

Yeah. And then, and I love that because well, it actually, I did, I had a moment where I thought about even, you know, when I got pregnant, right? Like my whole decision, like to, to have my children was because of how my parents reacted. They, they accepted, they accepted that I was pregnant and they were willing to support. Right. And that could have changed the whole trajectory of my life. And even now, as my kids are older,

Kerri Ann (33:16.269)

Yeah, beautiful.

Kristy Thackeray (33:21.354)

you know, I'm with you, Kiri, I'm like, they, you know, there's some decisions that I don't love, but that, you know, that being said, it's also not my life and I have to just, I have to accept. So there's like that radical acceptance of just, they're at this age now where it's like, I love that. You said coach. I love that we're like coaches where, you know, we might, we might be like, hey, you know, let's try this play instead and see if that works.

Kerri Ann (33:49.312)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (33:50.462)

And my mother-in-law and my mom went to Oprah when she was here in Calgary a few years ago and she actually mentioned that as you get older, your role changes. And like at some point, you know, like my parents are more of consultants, although sometimes my mom still tries to parent me. And then I have to remind her like, hey mom, I'm, you know, I'm an adult and I appreciate your concern.

Kerri Ann (34:28.446)

Oh, for sure.

Kristy Thackeray (34:38.366)

Right? But

Kristy Thackeray (34:45.866)

Continue to be a better parent.

Kerri Ann (34:48.608)

Yeah, and there's no finish line, right? Like, it's not like, as you know, once the child turns 18, it's like, that's it, you're done. There's none of that. A lot of it is not even just coaching. It's like, some days I feel like I'm just following behind them on the path, just kind of waiting in case they need me, you know? And even in... And...

Kristy Thackeray (34:50.806)

No.

Kristy Thackeray (35:04.798)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah!

Kerri Ann (35:08.52)

Even because my own family issues, like to this day, my mom, who hopefully won't listen to this, but she might, I get guilt about like, you should call me sometime. And you know, really I'm busy with my life and I don't really have all that much to say to her. So I, but I feel this, this like nagging, you know, she's a, she has an expectation that I call her.

Kristy Thackeray (35:35.835)

Mm-hmm.

Kerri Ann (35:37.12)

And so I'm really even trying to step back from that with my kids. And, um, instead of having that expectation for them, I've, I've told for sure, one of them just don't call me unless you want to, like, I don't ever want to be that obligation because our relationship is going to change over time and you know, now they do, they, it's becoming, you know, more or less frequent.

Kristy Thackeray (35:55.181)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kerri Ann (36:06.116)

that they reach out to me, but that's because they don't need me as much anymore. And ultimately, isn't that the goal?

Kristy Thackeray (36:13.822)

It is well and it's so funny you said that I didn't know that Korean so it's funny because well it's not funny but my mom is very similar like and she does live very close to me and she will call and then she'll be like okay well I gotta go she's like oh yeah you really don't ever have time for me and like and then I and I know I'm like I know I'm like I'm sorry and

And I feel bad, I do, and I feel that guilt. And so that is so interesting. You're aware of that too. I do not, like if I invite them for, like if I invite my kids for supper, like on a Sunday and one of them's like, no, I can't, I already got plans. I'm like, okay, no worries, it's all good. Or like, like I don't wanna ever guilt them. And I know my mom doesn't mean to do it. I think there's other stuff there, but I think like that, I just, I.

Kerri Ann (36:58.124)

Yes.

Kristy Thackeray (37:10.298)

I also know that like, I think our gender, like maybe our parents' generation, like there comes a time where it's like you, my mom was very much like, my kids are everything. And I'm not saying that's bad or good. Like I'm just, that's how my mom parented. And my mom did that because of her own experiences with her mom. And so she, my mom overcompensated and that's where you talk about that pendulum. Yeah. And I'm the type of parent where I'm really trying to have that balance.

Kerri Ann (37:33.25)

The pendulum, yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (37:40.394)

Um, like for example, like my mom would call me like christy, did you take your meds? I don't call my daughter all the time and ask her i'll text her once in a while like hey, did you take your meds? But I that constant like I'm trying to have that balance and it's so it is hard It's like a it's a fine line of like what's too much what's not enough because you want your kids to know you care But you also don't want to be a helicopter parent when they're like, you know 50 years old

Kerri Ann (37:54.969)

Yes.

Kerri Ann (38:02.649)

Well... Yes.

Kerri Ann (38:08.136)

Yeah. And it's hard because I mean, there was a time in their lives where they relied on us for everything, right? So and then you fast forward these years and then all of a sudden it's like, I got this mom, like I don't need you to solve my problems for me. And it's like, okay. Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (38:14.083)

Mm-hmm.

Kristy Thackeray (38:26.206)

And then it is so funny though, if I'm sick, I'm like, I need my mom. My husband's like, Oh God. But it's, and then at the end of it too, and as an empty nester, like that's been probably a chat, like, I don't know if it's a challenge, but a change of like, even looking at your husband and been like, Hey, it's really quiet in here. And like, it's. I love it.

Kerri Ann (38:31.761)

Yeah, that's nice. That's funny.

Kerri Ann (38:51.644)

Yeah, I don't hate it. How about you? And that's only Yeah, yeah, I did. I did a little bit too, but not really since then.

Kristy Thackeray (38:57.442)

I cried the first week. It was hard.

Kristy Thackeray (39:06.808)

And the thought of them moving back some days, I'm like, ooh, I'll really have to take this advice.

Kerri Ann (39:10.196)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We hadn't really talked about that, but actually I think that that's something we should prepare the young moms for is because I know quite a few of my friends right now are in the same stage where our kids are growing up and leaving home. And in some cases, these women are really distraught because

Kristy Thackeray (39:37.675)

Mm-hmm.

Kerri Ann (39:38.98)

they have really wrapped their own personal identity up into being a parent. So when that no longer is the case and you have this opportunity to start to think about you and your partner or just you, like then I think like the last couple of years even as those as those the kids responsibilities.

Kristy Thackeray (39:58.158)

Mm-hmm. Well, yeah.

Kerri Ann (40:07.728)

before you start to decline, like there's that, you know, the, where they're retracting from their relationship with you a little bit is when you should start to grow into yourself and really like figure out who you are so that when they have left the nest, you're not standing in the middle of the grocery store being like, I don't even know what kind of food I like anymore.

Kristy Thackeray (40:19.986)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (40:36.358)

Yeah, or you're like breaking down in the cereal aisle. Yeah.

Kerri Ann (40:37.624)

I've been buying groceries. Yeah, I've been buying groceries for this family and this person doesn't like this and this person likes that and so we can't have that. And then it's like, what do I like? And not just on a food front, but all of it. How do I wanna spend my time and the rest of my life? Cause really, parenting at the time feels like it's going to last forever. But.

Kristy Thackeray (40:48.398)

What do I like? Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (41:03.562)

ever. Yes. And it's never gonna end. Yeah.

Kerri Ann (41:08.548)

Yeah, but I mean, I've probably got a good 30, 40 years left. Well, maybe 30.

Kristy Thackeray (41:16.07)

And so did you personally find, like when your kids laughed and you were an empty nester for the first time, did you have that like experience where you were in the grocery store and like, what do I like to eat? Yeah.

Kerri Ann (41:31.212)

A little bit, yeah. Yeah, there was a little bit of that for me. It was actually thinking I was gonna have way more time than I did. I was like, oh, well, when the kids are gone, I can do this and do that. And so as you may or may not know, I like threw myself into community and joined like a bunch of boards and got really involved in that. And then found myself completely, yes, totally I just felt it, and found myself completely overwhelmed.

Kristy Thackeray (41:51.619)

So you distracted a little. Yeah.

Kerri Ann (41:59.292)

and being like, oh, I took on way too much. And then I was actually telling my daughter this over FaceTime, because she's in Europe, as you know right now. And I said, oh, I don't know, I just thought I'd have way more time now that you and your brother are gone. And she was like, mom, I think you overestimated the amount of time that you spent on us. And I was like, oh, here I thought I was this like,

doting parent and she's always really good for putting me in my place and recognizing that I didn't do that much for them anymore.

Kristy Thackeray (42:34.35)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and it's actually, that is so interesting because a lot of, and I think I'm kind of curious like how it would be now too. Like if moms are like really, I think we do, I think it, I don't know the research on this, but I would be confident to say that most of the time it is the mom that struggles with the MDNAS.

Kerri Ann (43:00.052)

Oh yeah, I mean, I don't know about your husband, but mine, I mean, he misses them, but not really. Like he's just delighted that the house is clean and it stays that way. And you know, there's not empty cups all over and it's weird things like that delight him. The grocery bill being like $50. You know?

Kristy Thackeray (43:14.316)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (43:18.004)

Uh...

Kristy Thackeray (43:23.65)

Our water bill is much less because one of my children used to bath and shower multiple times like just yeah, that was her thing. Well, and even having two extra bodies, right? Like it's the power bill, the water bill, the food bill. Like it all it all goes up, right? Like I actually said, I when I'm like around someone and it's like near September and they're like, oh, yeah, all this stuff. And I

Kerri Ann (43:33.027)

Yeah.

Kerri Ann (43:36.717)

Absolutely.

Kristy Thackeray (43:51.338)

All of a sudden I feel that in my body. I remember those days where it's like, oh my gosh, spring at, you know, like sports comes out, school's piece come out, like all of the things right at the beginning of the year. And then it was just hectic. I can't, like, I like to have that quiet time and relax, but then I wouldn't say my house is clean right now, because maybe I'm relaxing a little too much. Bye.

Kerri Ann (44:04.952)

Yeah.

Kerri Ann (44:19.009)

I feel that, yeah. But yeah, that you're right though, the hectic pace of parenting too. I don't miss that. And that really comes back to a lot of what you think is important isn't, you know, it's like, did they need to be in that many activities and, you know,

Kristy Thackeray (44:30.315)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (44:35.43)

And like, are they really gonna like it's great to have dreams and stuff. But like, you know, if your kid doesn't want to play hockey, but you had this like aspiration to be some NHL player, listen to your kid.

Kerri Ann (44:51.276)

Yeah. And really if you listen to them long enough, like throughout their life, they will tell you who they are going to be right from the beginning.

Kristy Thackeray (44:52.118)

Like I...

Kristy Thackeray (44:59.186)

Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah.

Kerri Ann (45:02.552)

you know, yeah, like I was telling you, I think I was telling you yesterday, I'm trying not to give too much information away about my kids, but my son is into music, really hardcore into music, despite us trying to put him into sports and whatever. And it wasn't until probably grade seven that we really were like, oh, okay. And then he was into music. But before that, I took him to one of those like,

mother, daughter, toddler classes when he was in preschool. And it was a music class, mostly like nursery rhymes and everything. And he went up to the to the person running the class and was like, do you have any green day? So yeah, like, even at that early age, he was on his path, right? Like, he knew what he was looking for. So why did I

Kristy Thackeray (45:34.025)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (45:47.488)

I love that.

Kerri Ann (45:59.364)

spend so much other time trying to divert him from that path.

Kristy Thackeray (46:02.194)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And and don't you ever like find to I was just thinking about that like music I was thinking like, do you remember Kerri Ann when you're like younger and you had the music blurry and in your car? And then like your parents might have been like, turn it down, turn that shit down. And now I like, and I always would think like, God, my dad, he doesn't know he doesn't have a good taste in music. Or like he doesn't know what you know.

Kerri Ann (46:21.993)

Yes.

Kerri Ann (46:28.735)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (46:30.398)

And now as a parent, I'm like, turn it down.

Kerri Ann (46:34.924)

Oh, really? And I'm not. I mean, maybe because it also was him expressing, like he was actually making music. So it was

Kristy Thackeray (46:36.67)

Well, I think it's because...

Kristy Thackeray (46:41.686)

But like when I'm driving, I'm like, oh, we need to, it's like when I'm driving, I turn the music down thinking I'll be able to like see better or something. I don't know. But if I'm by myself, I have it cranked. It's weird. Yeah. But it's like.

Kerri Ann (46:50.019)

Yes. Ha ha.

Kerri Ann (46:54.212)

No, and I always thought like of times in the car when they'd have, I kind of let them control the music and that was because that gives you great insight. Like the music, the musical choices that they're making gives you great insight into who they are and you know, and they get comfortable and yeah. So I never...

Kristy Thackeray (47:02.786)

to what they're... Oh!

Kristy Thackeray (47:08.206)

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to do this.

And yeah, music can speak so much without having a conversation with your kid, although the conversation is important. Yeah. I love that.

Kerri Ann (47:18.408)

Yeah. But yeah, I never, I never really filtered that kind of stuff from them. Same with swearing and all that. I was like, well, it's just creative expression. As long as you know, I'm to swear at someone and not then we're good.

Kristy Thackeray (47:28.618)

Well, I'm.

Kristy Thackeray (47:32.79)

I remember.

Kristy Thackeray (47:38.494)

Yeah, my husband, we, yeah, it was hard because it's like, what age do you let your kids swear? Right? Like, I mean, they hear it. They hear it at school. I'm, you know, and I remember my husband said, okay, you guys can say like swear words, but you can't like, you can use it in ascendance, but you can't be like, you're a shit head. And my one daughter was like, they were on a walk with the dog and I don't know, she was quite young, like she was probably under 10.

Kerri Ann (47:47.137)

Yes.

Kerri Ann (47:59.865)

right.

Kristy Thackeray (48:05.95)

And he's like, Oh, dad, watch out for that dog shit. Like, you know, and now and even now, like, sometimes I swear, and, and I don't even like, I don't correct them, because it's like, you know, they are adults, right? Like, I, again, it's about just acceptance, accepting that they are who they are. And and that takes it's not like, it's not like, Oh, yeah, I just accept everything. Like I have inner dialogue with myself, where I just have to put that filter.

Kerri Ann (48:10.393)

Yeah.

Kerri Ann (48:20.214)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (48:34.35)

in and be like Kristy, you know, and I actually at times like think back to when I was younger and you know like when my parents were doing more of the like approval rather than just the acceptance part right and it's like at the end of the day what do you think our kids want the most what's just to be yeah love and acceptance and to be like seen by us

Kerri Ann (48:55.448)

your love and acceptance. Yeah. Yeah, for exactly who they are. Cause in my childhood, I was heavily filtered. Like to this day, I don't think my parents really know who I am. And that's so not what I wanted for my kids. Like, so yeah, no, there's no filtering with them. Sometimes I wish there was, that they actually didn't tell me quite as much as they do, but it's better.

Kristy Thackeray (49:02.592)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (49:09.344)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (49:22.026)

But then I'm grateful, like don't you think sometimes grateful for that because they can? Like, because I always said to my kids too, I heard this somewhere, I didn't make it up myself, but I always said to them like, hey, you know, I have a little bit of an advantage point because I've lived through your adult years or like your younger years. Like I've gone through that, right? It's so funny. I remember when I was like, I used to like argue with my girls and I'd be like,

Kerri Ann (49:27.46)

Yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (49:48.874)

Well, when I, I would never have gotten away with that when I was your age. And then my dad was like, well, you're not me. And like, there'd be like a yelling match, right? And I'm like, now I'm just like, okay, like I need to not. Like just really, it's hard to be calm, have your filter in place and just kind of like, it's okay. It's okay. I've gotten more hugs in the last, like probably three years than I did in a long time.

Kerri Ann (50:12.163)

Yeah.

Kerri Ann (50:18.516)

Yeah, and yeah, me too. I do feel like they have a sense of gratefulness at the way they were raised, which is awfully gratifying. And it's unfortunate that they didn't have the capacity to do that when they were like three and five and complete hellions. And I actually would have could have used an attaboy, right, to get you through those really those long days, which I guess, yeah, we're getting close to time. So

Kristy Thackeray (50:22.722)

Yeah.

Yeah. Well.

Kristy Thackeray (50:43.869)

Yeah.

Kerri Ann (50:48.308)

Um, that kind of to, to wrap it up even, I, we had talked about that, like the, the number one lesson, just love them.

Kristy Thackeray (50:58.238)

Just love them, yeah. And you're gonna mess up. And that's okay.

Kerri Ann (51:00.476)

And yeah, when you find yourself, yeah, yeah. And when you find yourself in those days that are long, because they say that the days can be long, but the years are short. And oh man, that's true. We were sharing yesterday as well that like, the days being long, there were days when I would like go around the house and close all the blinds and the blackout curtains and to try and convince them that.

Kristy Thackeray (51:09.954)

The desert. Yeah.

Yeah.

Kerri Ann (51:30.448)

it was later than it was so they would go to bed so that I could just have some time to breathe those days but now and now I look at those and like oh I should have like soaked up every moment I could with them because

Kristy Thackeray (51:32.61)

you could get some... yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (51:45.502)

And I guess that's why they call it, right? Hindsight is 2020, right? And I love that too, like, Keri Ann, what you said earlier, like, you were doing the best you could with what you had at the time. And like Oprah says, when we know better, we do better, right? And so as we, like, it's a journey, and it's just continuing on. And I, yeah. Yeah.

Kerri Ann (51:50.429)

Yep.

Kerri Ann (52:00.601)

Yup.

Kerri Ann (52:07.352)

Which is why I also tell them I would be an amazing grandparent, because now I've got it all figured out.

Kristy Thackeray (52:11.626)

You know what? That's so true. Actually, I would too. And but not suggesting that like, I want to be a grandma right now. But I could actually I was doing the math the other day. My mom was a grandma when she turned 45. And I'm going to be 42 this year. So but I'm okay that I'm not too. But I'm okay. Like, you know, again, it comes back to just loving your kids. Yeah.

Kerri Ann (52:28.664)

See ya.

Kerri Ann (52:32.577)

Yeah, yeah

Kerri Ann (52:37.332)

Yeah, yeah, and yeah, my kids both say they don't want to have kids. And so, I mean, that could change like it did for me too. But that is even coming to terms with the fact that I may not be a grandparent is about letting them live their lives and letting go of my expectations and all the things that we just talked about. So, yeah.

Kristy Thackeray (52:41.93)

That's what my children say too.

Kristy Thackeray (52:54.166)

Yep.

Yeah, and they get so much pressure outside of the safe house or the safe home, that it's like, just let them live their life and figure out who they are. We're all trying to do that really essentially. Figured out. Yeah. Well, I hope. I hope.

Kerri Ann (53:03.822)

Yeah.

Kerri Ann (53:11.116)

Yeah, exactly. Just at different ages and stages. And I'm kind of glad the parenting part is done. I'm glad that stage is well, sort of done, mostly done. But I wouldn't have traded it for the world.

Kristy Thackeray (53:26.898)

Yeah, although I do look back, I look back and like, Oh, geez, though, you know, okay, like one thing, because I had twins, like, the twin stroller at the time was very like, now they've got the iPhone holder, the drink holder, like, all these like technology. And I was like, God, I could have used that when my kids were babies, or, you know, but things are all coming out new, right? I can't even imagine, like, even when we were babies, what our parents like, they're probably like, Oh, I could have used that when I was raising kids or

Kerri Ann (53:50.582)

Yes.

Kerri Ann (53:56.564)

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Still the hardest job there is.

Kristy Thackeray (53:57.975)

Yeah.

It is, and like kudos to all the moms out there just doing their thing and kind of comes at a nice time for international women's day tomorrow. So everybody's just rocking it. Yeah. And just do you, you know, what's, you know, it's your family and yeah. And, and give yourself grace.

Kerri Ann (54:09.896)

Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Kerri Ann (54:18.958)

Yep.

Absolutely. And you know, and if you do need help, we do have some therapists, yourself including, that help with kids.

Kristy Thackeray (54:21.812)

Yeah.

We have some great therapists. Well, I'm going to plug other therapists. I'm going to say like Nicole and I think, um, Jessica does some kit, kit stuff and parenting.

Kerri Ann (54:34.744)

Well, Jessica is, Jessica's actually exclusively children and parenting and couples, like even, because you know, even couples therapy is tricky. Because you think you're going to go in and have to talk about all your own individual shit. But the good thing about this with Jessica is that you can just go in even just talk about your differences in parenting or, you know.

Kristy Thackeray (55:02.758)

And that actually can be like for some couples very contentious subject right like And especially if you're coming into a blended family too, right like some to navigate that it's not always easy Yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, oh thanks for you and I really enjoyed this I Hope our boss approves

Kerri Ann (55:07.554)

Yeah. Oh, I know.

Kerri Ann (55:14.772)

Yeah, no, it's not. So that will be a topic for another day, right, Kristy? Yeah, I did too. Thank you. And I hope that... Me too. And our kids. All right. Thank you, Kristy. You too. We'll see you later.

Kristy Thackeray (55:30.203)

And our kids, yes. I and our kids. Thank you so much. Have a good day. Bye.