Allegra Taylor (00:01)
Okay, we are back for our second episode with Jamie McClintock as promised from the end of our first episode discussing human design and therapy. I promise to be more vulnerable in this episode while Jamie reads a bit of my human design and I share how it translates for me. And so I'm going to let Jamie just go at it for the next 45 minutes all about me.
and do what it is that I claim is the most important thing, which is just be authentic and vulnerable and open. So I'm nervous but excited.
Jaime McClintock (00:36)
I'm so excited and I'm excited. Hopefully my audio is all good here. It was just cutting out. I'm so excited to go through this. Obviously, you know, you have a basis for your human design chart, but I'm just gonna go over it from the top down and kind of talk through. So this will be a little bit different than in readings. Traditionally in readings, there's a lot of teaching on everything. So I'll be bringing in just like our key points. And then I really want you to expand on how that's shown.
for you. So that'll be a little bit of a different flow, but in sessions, I'll do this as well, where I can really see that something is landing and really kind of go in deeper and find out what's sitting underneath there. So that's kind of how we'll flow.
Allegra Taylor (01:06)
Okay.
Sounds good and I guess for everyone listening too, like I've given Jamie full permission because clearly obviously she knows who I am. This isn't like she's reading for me and doesn't know anything about my backstory. So I've given Jamie permission to ask challenging questions if she wishes, which obviously is a bit different than if this was a brand new client as well. But that permission has been granted.
Jaime McClintock (01:42)
Amazing. Okay, so starting off, when people first get into human design, especially when they come to me, they're like, well, I looked up my chart and this is what I am and I have no idea what that means. So you are a five one sacral generator and you're a pure generator. So when we break that down going really high level, first and foremost as a generator, generators are the workforce of
the collective and so there people who really find a lot of passion in being able to gain mastery in their profession and there's always something that kind of calls them that they really want to become a specialist in. You're actually ideally supposed to be a specialist and so obviously going through your profession you knew from a very young age you wanted to get into therapy and mental health. Talk to me about how your purpose has been filled.
through that professional lens and through that mastery and that specializing.
Allegra Taylor (02:39)
It's really funny because when I was really young, there's a lot of stories from my parents about me saying that I wanted to like help people and work with people and I think that that was always prevalent.
I always wanted to be specialized. There was a time when I think I was probably like 13 or 14 and Dr. Oz was like the thing at the time and Dr. Laura was a like an expert guest and she was a sex therapist and I was obsessed with her and I wanted to be a sex therapist and I remember being so young and like Googling like how to become a sex therapist and there wasn't a lot of like formal trainings and I really wanted to do that and then
Very soon after that in my life, my grandma got quite sick. Our grandma got quite sick and was diagnosed with dementia and I went right into a caregiving role and in that
definitely started to make connections between like what was happening in my personal life and then my projected professional life and then became like deeply rooted in being very specialized in working with like older adults and cognitive impairment and caregiving. And I was certain that that was gonna be my career for like ever. And for the people who knew me in that period of time, it's always like funny to see where I'm at now, cause that was never what anyone thought would happen.
But I found that like as I got to a place that I felt like there wasn't much more for me to like learn in that area I wanted to challenge myself and learn more which then went to like just adult mental health in general and I even find now that like I'll go through waves of being like I think that this is my specialty and Do like tons of training in that and be working with that all the time
And then once I feel like I've kind of gotten it, I'm bored and I want to find something else to learn and get. So then I go and expand something else, which becomes a new specialty. So I definitely like being specialized, but also once it's like I hit almost like a limit of like, I think I've got what I can here, I tend to look for something else to try and master.
Jaime McClintock (04:51)
Yeah, amazing. So one of the shadow sides, and we'd spoken about this in our previous podcast, that human design gives such a great insight into some of our shadow qualities or sort of lessons we need to learn along the way. And generators are guided by a sacral authority or the sacral center, which is your inner authority, which is kind where your intuition lives. It's your wisest voice. And this is like a regenerative battery.
to a certain point. So when you're doing something you really love, it's go, go, go, go, go. But all things need to happen in balance. And no matter what, even if you have a Tesla car that as you're driving, it has regenerative battery, it will die if you tried to drive across the country and never plug it in, never give it time to rest. So with that, generators are prone to a shadow side of overcommitment, burnout, saying yes to all the things, really diving in because there's such a great
Allegra Taylor (05:40)
you
Jaime McClintock (05:46)
powerful work energy often being kind of used by others around them as well to go, hey, can you help me do this? And you're like, yes, of course. So your notorious shadow wants to like pile on your plate because it thinks it can do all the things. So talk to me about what that's looked like for you.
Allegra Taylor (06:04)
Yeah, I used to have like a really big pride point and being like I'm a yes, man Like I'll say yes to everything and like I do deeply still have appreciation for the part of me that feels like if a door presents itself I should just say yes to it and figure it out on the other side, but I am notoriously over committed to So many things and when I commit myself to anything I commit to doing it 100 % and
So I'm trying to give a hundred percent to a minimum of probably five things at any given time and there's this cycle in my life of like I'd say usually about this time of year where I'm like, I might have said yes to too many things and I'm feeling really burnt out and tired and I spend the next like five months trying to clean up my overcommitment and then I get like a month of breathing and then I'm like, I'm not doing enough I should say yes to more things and it's just been so cyclical
that like it's a it's a very well defined part of my personhood like anyone close to me would say I'm notoriously overdoing it.
Jaime McClintock (07:13)
Yeah. And I'm really excited to get into some of your gates that are in your incarnation cross, because it's going to make so much sense that your strongest energy that comes through you is rhythms, patterns, cycles. So we'll discuss that. that brings us to the next part, right? Like that wanting to be a yes person. So you are a sacral generator. That's your inner authority. And so this is your sacral wants to say yes to things that light it up.
Allegra Taylor (07:26)
Mmm, okay, yeah, I feel that.
Jaime McClintock (07:43)
So when we talk about your inner authority, this is your oldest, wisest, intuitive voice and how does it speak to you? So yours being sacral is beautiful because it's a gut feeling. It's like this gut feeling of it's a yes, it's a no, does it light me up? The motto for decision-making there is, I saying, like, is this a full body yes, right? If it's a maybe or a no or not sure, that's not an answer. That's not.
a response that you give a yes to. So you have to be careful when you're saying yes to things. Is this like a gut feeling? Yes, I know that this is going to light me up. I know that this is what I want to do. Or is it your mind saying I should say yes, because this this opportunity could be especially the one in your profile, which will touch on that's the it always wants more knowledge. So it's like, should I say yes, because this is going to be some really fancy letters at the end of my name on my business card. Or is this a gut that like this is wow, this is lighting me up. And so your
Allegra Taylor (08:25)
Mmmmm
yeah.
Jaime McClintock (08:42)
sacral operates in the present moment and it does really well with yes and no questions. And so, and another thing is that it's not actually connected to the logic. So often your gut intuition leads before the logic is there to back it up, which can be really hard when there's a shadow side that wants to prove intuition using logic, which lives in the mind, which we're not meant to make decisions from our mind. We're meant to make it from a body response. So I want to talk.
I want you to talk through that.
Allegra Taylor (09:13)
I'm laughing because I would say that when it comes to like intuition I I'm very proud to have a very strong gut instinct like I know in my gut very easily what feels good and what doesn't but my
Reaction to my gut is if it's a yes, it's so easy like it's like the fastest Yes, if there's anything in my gut that feels a little bit like off I'm so resistant to saying no that like I'll try and intellectualize how it can be a yes or like how to Settle the parts that are I know?
And I think it's really tied to like a fear of missing out on opportunities or like not seeing something through and maybe not seeing like how beautiful it could have been. And so I trust my gut when it's a happy yes. And I doubt my gut when it's something that's going to be a difficult no on pretty well everything.
Jaime McClintock (10:12)
Yeah.
Allegra Taylor (10:13)
I, in my own therapy journey, like have learned so much about like how I really struggle to actually listen to my my body somatically, unless it's good news. If it's good, that's the easiest and I can justify to anyone like this doesn't logically make sense, but I feel so deeply that it's a yes and that has served me very well and when it comes to anything icky or less positive, I struggle so hard to listen to my body on a no.
Jaime McClintock (10:23)
Hmm?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And as someone who's watched your journey go in that direction is that, and this is not just exclusive to you, but to people that when we feel that we know the answer, we start to worry about what are people going to think? How is this going to let people down? What if, what if this could have been the key to whatever? We start getting into like the what ifs and that's the, you you speaking to tuning into your body is that
Allegra Taylor (10:43)
so hard.
Jaime McClintock (11:09)
If this, I'm a big believer that if what's meant for you will never pass by you. And even if you let it pass by you because you like, okay, so here's a good cycle. You say yes to too many things that you really didn't want to be a yes to. Now you're burnt out. A really good opportunity that you would be excited about comes around, but you're tuning into your body and you don't actually have the energy to do it. I'm a big believer it will come back into your sphere at a better time. But this is why it was so important to be.
five steps earlier taking care of yourself so that when the opportunity comes, you can say yes to it the first time.
Allegra Taylor (11:42)
Interesting, I like that.
Jaime McClintock (11:44)
And so it's like, the universe won't let it go by you if it's something that's so important. It's just a matter of like, what state are you in when it gets there? Right? And so when we see that cycle, it's really important to tune into your body and understand having good self-talk with like, it's okay that I say no to this thing. I'm human, I'm allowed to have boundaries. Could I do this job?
Allegra Taylor (11:54)
Hmm.
Jaime McClintock (12:14)
Could I and do I want to are two different things. Should I and do I want to are two different things. And so getting really in tune and one thing that's, so two things that are really important that I know I've spoken on before. The sacral operates really well in yes and nos. So a good exercise to do when you don't know to trust your body response, I mean, you always know what a gut feeling is, is to have someone ask a hundred yes and no questions in a row and just watch how your body, and it can be something as easy as,
what to eat, it could be a big thing, but it's not about what your answers are, it's just like how, yeah, that's what my body sounds like when it says yes, that's what my body sounds like when it says no. So it's a really cool exercise. Really great in partnerships to educate a partner or anyone around you. Give me yes or no options, I do better. Big time needs to kind of be in the environment to feel it sometimes, so it's not as good with like future thinking of do I wanna say yes to this six months from now? It's kinda like I'm here.
So the strategy of a generator is to respond. And so the idea with responding is the strategy of how to get everything you want is wait until it's actually something to respond to versus like pulling it out or trying to seek of what should I be doing next? It's kind of like when the next thing is supposed to come, it'll give you an opportunity to respond to it as a yes or a no. Can you think of anything in your journey that's kind of shown up that way?
Allegra Taylor (13:37)
my god, constant. I'm constantly like, and I'm getting a lot better, but my whole experience of everything has been like, what next, what next, what next, what next, what next? Like I'm always like 10 steps ahead and it's really hard for me to like stay present in just like, it just is what it is and what's meant to be will be. And I often would like be so fixated on trying to find the answer to that problem.
that like I'm trial and erroring so many things and wasting so much energy and getting so frustrated. And then as soon as it would be like, I give up, suddenly like the perfect solution would come up and I'd be like, are you actually fucking serious? Like now, now this is gonna happen. I always like think back to this like one time, this is the dumbest example, but like I, clearly I like love.
decorating for instance, like anyone that comes to our office knows that I like love love decorating and when I get an idea in my head of what I want or how I want it I'm like it has to happen, it has to happen right now.
And I found this like nightstand, one nightstand this time, like, and I wanted it so bad. It was at Winners, and I couldn't find the second. And I started getting like obsessed with trying to find this nightstand. And I drove to like every single home sense and Winners in Calgary. And I went to Edmonton for a weekend. I did the same thing and I couldn't find it anywhere.
and I ended up getting so frustrated and being like, well, obviously this isn't gonna happen. And I ended up just like settling and found these two other nightstands. Literally two days later, after I get these other nightstands, I go to the winners right by my house and there's two of the other nightstands that I was looking for. And I feel like that is the like story of my life of like, why couldn't I have just been patient and waited for it? It would have happened. Like it didn't need to be right now. And so I'm learning.
And it's still very hard to just like let it be until it's supposed to be because I just want to control it to happen now
Jaime McClintock (15:40)
I'm so excited to dive in deeper on your incarnation. So I'm just going to briefly touch before we move on to that, because this is going to be such a great segue. Every human design type has a red light and a green light, right? Like it's the not self theme is the red light something you're out of alignment somehow. And that's frustration for a generator. And the green light is satisfaction.
Allegra Taylor (15:44)
Hahaha!
Jaime McClintock (16:07)
Right? And so that's like the alignment theme. So when you experience that frustration, sometimes it's all out. You know, I always say, take a pause and go, okay, I'm feeling frustration right now. Is it because the universe it's like delivering me this frustration to say, Hey, take a breather. Hey, slow down. Hey, instead of actually driving all over and shopping around for an entire day, depleting your energy on your one day off a week, actually you need to rest because there's going to be an opportunity. So it'll
Frustration will be just like a good signpost for either you said yes to something that you should have never said yes to and you feel frustration off the bat. Or you're just feeling a little bit stuck and it's the universe is asking you to have a rest, go for a walk. Literally just get up and go drink some water. Like go do something that kind of breaks the cycle of where you are right now and then it'll start to flow again. So that's a really good signpost whenever you're starting to feel that it's like, yeah.
So it's just asking me to step away from this for a second, release attachment to the outcome, whatever that is. So it's a really good moment. So when we talk about the incarnation cross, everybody has different ones and they have four main gates or gifts that are made up of this. So this is a really good indicator when I do readings and people are like, I don't know what my path is in life. I don't know what my purpose is. I don't know what the hell I'm supposed to be doing. I don't know who I'm supposed to be.
Right? This is the number one thing that I start to look into of what, because all of this is sort of like the purpose that they're here to sort of fulfill the themes that are going to go throughout their lifetime. So there's a conscious and a subconscious side. And so I'll kind of break it down to express what each one means. And then I'll talk about the whole cross, like how it all weaves together. So first and foremost,
Your strongest gate is gate five. So this is the gate of fixed patterns, rituals, routines, cycles. And so when we consider your, this is your strongest gift because 70 % of the energy that flows through your chart flows, passes through this lens. So this is kind of like something that would be seen in all areas. And it's actually the light that you're here to shine. Like it's what people want to see. It's what you were put here to do. And so
on a low or like on a really high side. So every gate has a high expression and a low expression. And so on the high side, it's being really in tune with your own cycles, really in tune with your own patterns, really in tune with your own rituals, really in tune with like what your unique cycle looks like for you, right? Knowing when it's time to rest, being in tune when it's time to not.
People tend to do really well when they understand their cycles and don't get so rigid about them, but go, yeah, I know that this is a down part of the year for me. Or on this one week every month, I'm not that, I don't have a ton of energy. I'm not gonna say no, I don't wanna be social, right? Like getting very in tune with those. On a low side though is being either really rigid. So you can find people here can be either really rigid about my day needs to look X, Y, Z.
Or they actually, and this is something I want to speak to with you, you sacrifice your own tuning into your own cycles and what you need to take care of yourself to say yes to everything else, to say yes to everyone else. Actually, I guess we should touch on the five one at some point in this, the five part of your profile is the challenge solver. It's like the person who wants to fix things. So you can actually ignore your own need for
Ritual, routine, cycle. How does that show up for you?
Allegra Taylor (19:49)
I feel like I look at my quote unquote downtime as the last resort option. It's like, it's a gift that gets given if I've effectively completed all of the things that I've committed to completing. And so if I promised that I'm going to, you know, do a meeting with you once a week, then I'm going to meet with you once a week, even if it means that giving up that hour
is going to screw up my sleep routine for the next eight days if I want to you know go away for a weekend but I realized that like I didn't get people back paperwork that I was supposed to get them back and I should have had that done by now I'm going to like cancel whatever my plans were to just like stay back and make sure that that paperwork gets completed and it's like this constant like as soon as my to-do list is empty then I can
go back to doing the things that I know are good for me and continuously recognizing that like that list is never going to end because I cross off five and six get added like so it plays really not nicely with the part of me that wants to say yes to everything.
because that list is always filled and that list or that person in me that wants to say yes to everything would actually be panicked by having nothing on a to-do list. But then having a full to-do list means that I can't take time to take care of myself. And so it's very like counterintuitive and I'd say it's like a consistent push-pull that I just like feel like I'm navigating in myself.
Jaime McClintock (21:27)
Yeah. And I think so much of this too is like being in tune with your own rhythm and ritual routine. And this also holds such a big part of like trusting in divine timing, trusting that when it's the right time, it'll come for you, like it'll come back into your sphere, right? And so I think when I see this, it's like, it is such a habit breaker or creator.
And first and foremost, if I had somebody sitting in front of me in a reading is like, get curious about what the impact of not having rhythm and routine, what is the impact of pushing that off and letting your own need for those cycles or trusting and timing, including your downtime. Like I can trust in my need for downtime because it's going to make me more efficient when it is the time in my routine to do work, which is not when I am.
Allegra Taylor (22:20)
Right. Right.
Jaime McClintock (22:22)
And I wanna share like when we were sitting in, so the whole office, I mean, we're entering cold and flu season, everyone kind of had cycled through not feeling great, but you from my noticing over the years have a cycle of pushing yourself almost past burnout into illness and letting that be the only excusable time for rest.
Allegra Taylor (22:42)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, without a shadow of a doubt. And I almost have it cyclical to an exact week every year that I be- and I get sick sick. Like, I can't lift my head off of a pillow and I'm like, I'll joke that like I'm like fully deceased for a week. And-
then the cycle is by the end of that week, I feel major guilt for what got quote unquote dropped in the week that I was sick. So I come back and I absolutely send it to catch everything up and also feel like I'm a better person on the other side of being sick. Like I almost feel like I have to like make up for having the downtime to literally heal.
So I have to prove to everyone that I can manage this and then go back to being at a moderate level of burnt out as a result of that. And then I'll sustain that until I get to my next major sickness and then do this all over again.
Jaime McClintock (23:46)
Yeah, yeah. So that is the shadow of rhythms and routines.
Allegra Taylor (23:55)
Yeah.
Jaime McClintock (23:55)
when you have misaligned rhythms and routines, this is what happens. So just like in IFS work where it's like we have to mature that part, we have to mature that thing, it's like, okay, I'm a person who recognizes, I actually do well when I have like my own rhythm. There's a lot of individualism in your chart as well. So it's kind of like your own rhythm as everybody should set their own ritual routine. But
Do I want this immature version of a cycle? Or would I like to mature that into a way that feels more sustainable and aligned with me? Right? And what has the impact been? What opportunities have I not been able to be a part of to its fullest capacity and enjoy because I insist on clinging to getting rigid to this routine of burnout and illness and success and then burnout and then illness and success.
Allegra Taylor (24:33)
Yeah.
Jaime McClintock (24:53)
You are rigid in that routine. And that's a great thing. this is someone who, mean, well, every therapist does their own therapy too, but this is where I say go to your therapist and get out of your own way on like, don't you feel you're worthy or whatever that is of having a routine and a ritual that actually supports you, right?
Allegra Taylor (25:14)
Yeah It's really funny because like I think in the last year this is something that's like become really apparent because obviously in like growing the business i'm supposed to be transitioning into being able to like Not be like let's say having as many sessions in a week or like having the downtime to just like enjoy my life and just like be proud of the business that I built and
Anytime that I start to get to a place where like I feel like I have the opportunity to actually step into like a more slowed down Lifestyle or like quote-unquote like reap the rewards of the work. I've put in to get here I start to panic that people will think that I don't work hard enough or that I'm taking advantage of them or that like I think I'm better than them and so like like how dare I think that I can have a slower life pattern if everyone else can't so then I almost feel like
I have to keep being burnt out in order to stay connected or be relatable. And if I'm not, then it's gonna look like I'm out of touch. I'm too privileged. And I find that I definitely have an attachment to a shared narrative of suffering that I'm scared to let go of because I don't know how.
I'll be received on the other side of that if I like do the thing that I know I should so it's it's deeply confronting and Honestly, like and a really big vulnerable point is as I look at you know the next few years of my life and I imagine wanting to be a mom like Realizing that my life is going to ultimately be disrupted and that I will add this
role of parenthood that will give me every excuse under the book to consistently stay burnt out, but I also will inevitably have to choose to let go of the type of burnout that I've been so attached to in my career that there's like an existential crisis for me internally on like how can I do that and I definitely still have attachment to like I'll just figure out how to still maintain the way that I work and maintain trying to be a quote unquote perfect parent.
even though there's a whole other part of me that knows that that is not going to work. So I can still internally like hear the push and pull and play like feeling and logic, get to the right answer and then still have this like little whisper that's like, but what if you can figure it out? But what if you, what if, what if? Like, and trying to silence that is exhausting.
Jaime McClintock (27:47)
Yeah.
for sure. Well, and this brings it into a good segue into the next gift on your conscious side. So if we have the sun as your five, we use our earth as our benchmark of like what grounds us in this, right? So if your sun and what you are here to learn is the importance of ritual routine, boundaries, everything that works for you in order to see that, what grounds you in it is the gate of change. But this is all about like being a motivational speaker.
gaining wisdom over time through your own experience and then actually communicating it. So when we are in a low expression of this gift, when maybe the shadow is at the wheel a little bit more, it's like kind of boredom because nothing interesting is happening. It wants to just keep creating change, new adventure, new things, bring others along with them, like, irregardless of the consequence, and other people are on you to just keep seeking new, new, new, new, new.
right? And changing for the purpose of just not wanting to be bored. But the high side of this is being able to actually recognize where you have had these experiences and what you've gone through. And this allows you to relate to others and then communicate about those experiences. So I see it as like being able to communicate what it looks like to burnout and to go, go, go, go and to go, what's next? What's next? What's next? And say yes to all the things. And I want to do five things. And so
what grounds you in your ability to be highly expressed in this is to be able to communicate the story of what it looks like when you didn't. And all the stories that come up of why you should, look at all the success I've had because of it. And it's like, do you not trust that you would have had that success no matter what? You would have just enjoyed it a little more along the way. And so that's kind of like how those two play together.
Allegra Taylor (29:21)
Mm-hmm.
Ha!
Jaime McClintock (29:41)
And on the unconscious side of this, so when we have our unconscious sun, this is all about like the energy that you actually need to embody in order to be magnetic. It's why people are attracted to you. It's why people want to come into your circle. And so you kind of have to really be embodying this. So on a certain level, it's like, why are people attracted to you? Well,
This is the gate of realization. This is 47. This is like the eureka moments the aha moments they're attracted to you because Something about being in your sphere allows them to have these big breakthrough moments obviously highly identified within your industry and so on the low side this looks like someone who Might feel a lot of like anxiety pressure being oppressed being kind of held down
Allegra Taylor (30:23)
Yeah.
Jaime McClintock (30:34)
They might have a negative mindset, but on a high side, it's being very solution oriented, being really open to possibilities and having like a really positive mindset about things. So when we consider this, it's all about like communicating to people are attracted to hearing about your plot twists, your own eureka moments, your own things that went like one minute you're doing this and the next year, whatever.
how you've traversed through those like bumpy or more challenging times. So let's speak to that a bit, how that's shown up for you.
Allegra Taylor (31:07)
Yeah, I feel like that's actually something that I am in my like high expression in like on a really regular basis and I actually don't know if I can think of times where it wasn't that like I feel like this is something I'm really comfortable being rooted in and I definitely have a very like the way I look at everything every challenge is like when there's A no or a barrier. I'm just like so then what like I just gotta like find a different way and I'm often like surprised when I like look back at how much
has happened as a result of just like creatively finding a different route through or finding a different way and the more comfortable I got in like acknowledging that as being true and the more that I shared that with people and then I got to like witness how cool it was to see other people like learn from that and do the same thing.
the more that I like wanted to share that and so I think that in a lot of ways like I am able to share my own experiences of like trial and tribulation and then like ultimately ending up where you are supposed to end up that might be better than you've ever expected but it wasn't what you projected was gonna happen saying that like I also
know that one of the ways that I'm able to like introspectively see when I've hit my own wall is when I realized that like, I'm talking to let's say a client and they're sharing something that's hitting really close to home for me and suddenly I'm like, I don't have a answer or like I don't have a way forward for this and I'm like, ooh, that's because there's something that's like showing up for me where I feel stuck in same mentality.
And whether it's that there is a way forward that I can see or there isn't, something that I do that I know is a highly contentious thing in the therapy space is self-disclose. And I'm a very big believer in self-disclosure because I think it builds connection and trust, especially like, yes, when it's appropriate, but...
I will self-disclose quite a bit about my own experiences of being in a similar headspace and what's helped or doesn't, and not because I'm like, so you do this too, but I'm like, where does that land? And I find that like that level of relatability is what ultimately has made my therapy career successful. Because when I wasn't doing that, I just didn't feel like I was getting anywhere with people. I don't feel like people felt understood by me. And so...
the more that I struggle in my own stuff, the more I realize that if I can work through this, that I can help other people work through this, and then I can give them the gift of those aha moments, which I always say I'm addicted to that Eureka feeling, like addicted to it, I love it.
Jaime McClintock (33:44)
Yeah. And it's why people are around and like want to come into your area. And when we talk about aha moments and sharing this, you know, are you going to share it as a glass half empty or glass half full? Like if you're able to kind of pull that silver lining out of there, I had said, I'd heard somebody say it's okay to not be super vulnerable. It's okay to wait until you're sharing it when it's a scar, not a scab. Right. So
but it's also vulnerable to say to someone, don't really have all the answers figured out. This is kind of like my experience with it and this one hits close to home for me. And so I think that the self-disclosure piece, you could see it as a shadow of like, this bad thing happened. I'm gonna shut it down. I'm not gonna share it with anybody. And it's almost a disservice because your willingness to go, I was there and I don't really have it figured out gives permission to somebody else along the way to go, it's okay that I don't have it figured out.
they're in this industry and they don't have it figured out. Maybe we don't all have it figured out, you know? Like there's not some like end of like graduating therapy that like you ascend to and then you just have all the answers and it gives permission. It's an aha moment in a different way that you can facilitate in that moment. When you see it as like some sort of a thing that you need to like hide or there's no good in it at all because you don't have the answers, there's no good in it. It's like it could still have a layer in there that's good for someone else. So it's really good that way.
Allegra Taylor (34:42)
Yes.
Yes, so true.
Jaime McClintock (35:07)
And what keeps this one grounded is gate 22 for you. So this is the gate of openness. So this is all about like emotional grace and really being able to like creatively express emotional grace, emotional intelligence. And so it's the ability to be emotionally open through active listening. And so of course on a high side, it's like being really good at handling.
hearing people and having grace and letting them have a space that that they can talk about this on a low side, though there can sometimes be a struggle with like moodiness or that would be more of like an emotional immaturity at that point, right? Like that something contentious or you know, you don't really want to be open with them. You're being kind of like maybe projecting some stuff on them could come in there too. And so it's really about following your passions, challenges that you've faced.
and really how you've stayed the course in your life when others have quit. And then in that emotional realm as well, right? Like how have you stayed the course when it feels vulnerable and annoying and painful and whatever. And even in your business, what does it look like to stay the course when it's not going well? When shit's hitting the fan. It's not all glamorous and we're not all on like yachts. Entrepreneurs are like the like, yeah, I got into business to work 80 hours a week.
Allegra Taylor (36:19)
Good
Yeah, woo!
Jaime McClintock (36:28)
Yeah, exactly. So that can that can happen. And so when those four things kind of come together, that's like a big life theme for you and how that's woven in. So again, we go back to so much of it coming down to those cycles and changing and like what that interplay is. And it's the idea of divine timing and change, like when it's necessary, it will happen whether you like it or not. And I want to just go back because we had skipped over
the five one side of your profile really quick. So the five one side of your profile, this is kind of the role that you play in this. It's like if, if that incarnation cross the four of them. And so it is like left angle cross of separation. Hallmark movie theme here is really having like a strong sense of individuality, a strong sense of being in tune to who you are, what you need, having very intuitive timing on your own rhythms, rituals, routines, and then being able to kind of like adapt to circumstances, but not at the expense of yourself.
And so when we have that, it's like, what's the actor that's kind of meant to be in there? What's the role you have to play or you're meant to play during this movie theme? And that's five one. So five is the challenge solver. They're like, they're considered the heretic. So it's like the person who wants to run in and save the day. And the one, so your conscious side, what you identify, what you think everyone kind of wants from you is this ability to get in, solve problems and run in and be the hero.
And your subconscious role, why they're actually drawn to you is that like wisdom, both internal wisdom and external wisdom that you've taken in, processed and been able to use that wisdom to help them. And so it's really, it's a beautiful one because the five ones often want to challenge the status quo and they want to kind of go against it. It's like a bit of a rebellious energy in there, but it's because you've taken in something or you have some sort of an internal knowledge that says it's not this way.
Allegra Taylor (38:21)
Hmph.
Jaime McClintock (38:21)
I know the way to help you right now, but fives can be specifically very open to either projecting their stuff if they're operating from a shadow or taking on the projections of others of like, I have this problem, fix it for me. How has that shown up for you?
Allegra Taylor (38:40)
I mean that's that's pretty much the MO of my entire existence. I think is I Know that I've always been someone who will hold hard stuff hard conversations hard reflections and even if people come to me and they are Just sharing because they're venting I always take it as like I need to fix this like I must fix this or like find a way through it and I
would make everyone's problems my problems. And this has been an inherently negative cycle in my own family and my upbringing where I would always take the role of fixer. And I felt like A, that I needed to know what was going on with literally everyone so that I could mitigate any sort of issues that were going to happen in people's lives, whether it was like independently or with other people. And so
sometimes it would show up in looking like I was like always in the drama and it wasn't ever because I wanted drama it's because I wanted to like get rid of all possible drama and our family is incredibly high drama conflict and so it never ends and I would put my own individual relationships with people at
at risk to try and solve everyone else's problems instead of just dealing with my own individual relationships or my own needs in those moments. And I realized that, you know, as I get older and, you know, not just because of my line of work, but just my own personal reflection in it, that like, I will...
sacrifice my own integrity to try and fix problems for other people, which only creates further problems for other people and myself. And I've had to learn that the most, you know, heroic thing, if we want to say that, that I can do is actually just stay deeply in alignment with what
I can and can't do. I found the principle of stoicism, like the whole philosophical understanding of stoicism a couple years ago, and it was so transformative for me in like being able to define what I do and don't truly have control over and learning to have to set boundaries in the way that boundaries are supposed to be set to not feel like I have to own everyone's problems as my own problems, but
empower people to solve their own problems and know that they're like seen and unconditionally supported as they navigate this. And this has been probably the most confronting lesson of my like coming of age experience and continues to be. It's probably the number one thing that I have to be aware of is not trying to solve every single problem and make it my own.
Jaime McClintock (41:33)
Yeah. And I think it's so important when we talk about the like five versus the one is that you think your role of why people need you or want you is five to fix the problems. When in reality, it's actually just the right people want that wisdom, that, you know, intellect, like that being able to kind of tap in and riff with that knowledge base that you have so that they can have their own eureka moment. Like you can see how it all plays around here.
but it is a shadow side of it to think that all problems are yours to solve and wanting, when you said you wanna duck out, that's upside of that one that wants to duck out because I don't have the right knowledge to fix their problem, so I'm gonna isolate. I don't have the right knowledge to fix this, so I'm gonna go take another certification so that next time this happens, and this pulls in the cabalistic teachings of like assess the vessel, right?
Allegra Taylor (42:18)
Yes.
Jaime McClintock (42:31)
Am I trying to fix somebody from an empowering space where I'm trying to, help them, I should say, trying to help somebody from an empowering space where I'm just simply sharing internal knowledge that I have, and then I can use my own internal wisdom to know that they can choose what to do with this, only they know the right answer for them. Or am I helping them from a disempowering way, which is creating codependency, and now I'm just the family fixer. And I really want to challenge you on talking about that because
Allegra Taylor (42:56)
Yes.
Jaime McClintock (43:01)
We have worked so hard on that role of being the family fixer for you.
Allegra Taylor (43:05)
Yeah.
I think, you know, like as of late, like I've been very confronted in my personal life about how much enabling I've created in cycles that I would be the first person to, to persecute and say like, I can't believe that this still happens this way, or that this person hasn't figured this out, or that this person hasn't figured it out without taking any accountability for the fact that I enabled those cycles to be the way that they were by trying to quote unquote, step in and just fix it.
And in fixing it, just allowed people to continue behaviors that I was...
disempowering them by believing they weren't capable of confronting themselves and thinking that I'm doing that from a place of love versus a place of robbing people of their right to be upset and robbing people of their right to face the hard fast truth of the things that they need to confront in order to change their own cycles and when this really came to fruition and I was forced to really confront the part of me that couldn't
no longer enable.
the subsequent damage that all came to light was really hard for me to watch because I had to also radically accept that it probably wouldn't have been that big of a crash if I had not tried to intercept for as long as I tried to intercept and so Now, you know like on a learning side of it what I'm realizing is that I in Just trying to fix everything or do everything for everyone. I'm also essentially
down saying I don't think you're capable of doing this yourself and I don't like that, like that doesn't land and so I've been really trying to change the narrative in my head from like just do the right thing and fix it to like just do the right thing and allow people the right to see that they're capable of doing what they need to do to get out of this which has been not only like massively confronting but transformative in my personal life and my professional life probably in the last year.
Jaime McClintock (45:13)
Yeah, amazing. And I think somebody had said this and I want to say it was one of my Kavala teachers that said, so there's a big belief that we all have a karma that we're kind of here to heal. And so it's like, before you decide to get involved in helping someone, make sure you're not, your involvement isn't interrupting their karmic process, right?
because it delays it. If it's a karma, good or bad, they came here to heal something and you're robbing them of the opportunity to learn that lesson for themselves or even gain that empowerment knowing that they can do that. There's a self-trust theme and to touch on this super briefly, but we look to a nodal, the North and South nodes in your chart to tell me the storyline of your life from birth.
kind of having to like maybe overcome some shadows and familial units and then into what are we bringing forward? And so much of yours on your South sides, both on conscious and unconscious is in receptivity. And it's in this idea of like getting so lost in the mental process of like, well, how's this gonna work? Or like a lack of motivation or a doubt, but it's more the shadow characteristic kind of wants to look externally for the answers, wants everyone else to give them the advice, everyone else to tell them, everyone else fix my problems for me.
And then it's this unlearning of recognizing that actually you asked for so many opinions, so many external involvements that now you've lost your ability to receive your own inner voice, because it's so lost in the noise. And so you have to outgrow this process. when you go forward into one is one is all about creativity. It's all about self-expression. It's all about kind of going your own way, being really in tune to like.
it doesn't matter that those are the, that's the right advice for them. They're not you and that your path may look different. So what can happen is that once you start to learn, man, maybe I asked and the voices were too loud that I stopped learning. And then you start to go your own way. Now you get a whole new lesson of how to trust that inner voice, trusting that that is the right thing, especially when it's different from what the advice would have been from the outside.
Allegra Taylor (47:28)
Yeah.
Jaime McClintock (47:29)
And so what can happen is like on the shadow side, once you get into that territory is almost like a duck down, duck out or fall back into old patterns when it feels like it doesn't know what it's doing. When it's like, my gosh, like I feel like I need to go this direction, but what the hell do I know? And it'll fall back into old patterns. So you're just kind of like old fat old patterns, old rituals, older teams. These are the snapshots that we can see our themes.
Allegra Taylor (47:41)
Yes.
Mmm.
Jaime McClintock (47:58)
And really what it is is like, you're meant to learn the ultimate exaltation of this journey is learning that the greatest impact that you will ever have is when you stay true to only your process. And so as we wrap, I want you to talk about how that played into your path with kindred roots and talk, like talk openly, as open as your maybe,
Allegra Taylor (48:13)
Hmm.
Jaime McClintock (48:27)
licensing board will allow. But like, you were a woman on a mission. Let's pull in the five one. Let's pull in the fact that you want to challenge the status quo. Let's pull in the fact that you have that bit of a rebel energy. Let's pull in the fact that you want to, you're meant to, your greatest calling, your north nodes, your purpose, everything is about making a pattern, a ritual, routine or space for you. Outside opinions can stay outside. What does that look like for you?
Allegra Taylor (48:27)
Hahaha!
Yeah.
I think it's really fascinating because for people who don't work in the mental health field, I think that there would be an assumption that the mental health field is an incredibly loving and safe space to work in. And that's not...
necessarily true. And there's a lot of standards, whether they're like literal standards of practice that are in your licensing body or expectations of people like in our industry that you need to show up a certain way. And if you don't show up that way, that you're somehow doing literal damage. And because of that, there's an obscene amount of fear mongering in this industry around the way that a therapist, a social worker, a psychologist is supposed to be.
And a lot of those principles, the standard, do not align for me personally. Where self-disclosure, again, where I said it's a contentious topic, I'm not lying when I say it's contentious. There are...
probably vast majority of teachers or people who have been practicing for a very long time and not that long, who would argue so valiantly against me believing in self-disclosure that self-disclosure is incredibly damaging and that it muddies the water of the therapeutic relationship. And anytime I tried to stick to the rules, I felt so disconnected from not just my clients, but myself. I remember doing like
my first website and Jamie was helping me build it and I was like what am I supposed to wear and I remember going and like buying like a blazer and like loafer shoes and I was like no one's gonna want to talk to me I'm so young like at that point I think I was 25 and like trying to like hide the parts of myself that I thought were not gonna be favorable to the image of what a therapist is supposed to look like and anytime I stuck to that box
I got nowhere. I got no clients. I made no money. I lost money on everything. And I started to see it like something's wrong with me. Like clearly I'm the problem. And slowly over time, when I'd hit a frustration point of not doing what I just felt like I wanted to innately do, which was where...
comfortable sweater and a pair of slippers and wrap up in a blanket and talk to someone as if they're just someone I care about in my life I would
Just kind of slip into it. I'd like you know what like fuck it I'm just gonna do it my way and the more that I just like Accidentally did it my way the more that I saw that I was actually starting to get the responses that I was looking for the more I like looked forward to my sessions with my clients because I was like we're getting somewhere I feel connected they feel connected and I was really scared to tell the public how I was operating because I was so afraid of how my industry
would receive me in doing that. And I remember it was, you know, I think January, 2023, and we were revamping the website. And Jamie really challenged me to just be like, if you weren't so afraid of just saying what it is that you believe in and doing it, how would this website look? What would your mission and vision be? And I remember thinking, I kind of just have to do it.
If it doesn't work at least I know that it didn't work But I was being real and authentic and I remember being scared shitless of like the way that I was gonna say we did things and authentically showing up as yourself and You know being unapologetic swearing like I remember making an Instagram video being like are you gonna be mad at me as my client if I swear in a session like so afraid and It was not
long that once I actually just like let it be what it was to just be myself and show up with the knowledge that I have as a clinician and meet people where they're at that things evolved so fast. They blew up. They continue to blow up and
A new thing was unlocked in me where I wanted other therapists or clinicians to not be afraid to do the same thing because it wasn't just good for me, it was good for my clients. And I wanted other people to see that. And I've been so lucky to bring people into Candid Roots that I had pre-existing relationships with professionally as well and encourage them to step into themselves. And all of us step into ourselves in a very different way, very different lights. But we...
Do amazing work because we are in our own.
light and now when I look at like what is my specialty when we go back to the beginning of like, you know, I've specialized in this and I've specialized in that I think really like the main specialty I would say is that I am so proud of my ability to help people authentically accept themselves and just show up the way that they are and recognize that like You could be the juiciest peach in the world and not everyone's going to like peaches and that's okay
but the growth and the good comes when you stop pretending to be something you're not out of fear of how it's going to be received. And so I genuinely believe that that if there was any defining feature to what kindred roots is and why it is, it's that.
Jaime McClintock (54:29)
Yeah. And as an outsider looking in, I mean, there's so many times we've watched, well, I've known of it getting challenged in those professional spaces. What does it mean? Like, what does it mean to you must show up professionally? You must be in a blazer. You must be, you know, an office must look a certain way. And you really have every time I've watched you do the thing you wanted to do anyways, do the thing that was your internal, but you were so worried about those external voices.
Once it clicks, it clicks. And recently we were all in like a team training and some of our therapists were brought to literal tears because of the environment that you've created where they get to show up as themselves, which is not the industry standard specifically in public mental health of being able to authentically be themselves. And by having a safe space to be yourself, being loved for being yourself, heals such a core part of them.
that they felt was unlovable or that they feared was unlovable, whatever the story is that they've like made that about themselves. So I wanna really celebrate how much I've watched you transform the lives of the people that you've pulled in, that you've trained along the way. It is so rare. And what we're seeing is that through that awkward transition of people judging, it'll never work, it'll never work, it'll never work, to boom, it did work.
And the way that you get asked by other clinic owners who maybe want to challenge something and do it a different way for themselves too is also magic because that's what creates a ripple effect of authenticity and challenges them to look outside of what is status quo and what is unique to them and what feels good. So I love that. I want to touch on a really fun little flavor before we close out.
Allegra Taylor (56:10)
Yeah.
Jaime McClintock (56:15)
Human design also tells us environments that we're meant to thrive in and a ligra's environment is kitchens. so kitchens are not specifically kitchens like you're meant to be a baker, but it's a space within the home that we nurture and carefree for people. These environments are incredibly good to be surrounded in areas where people are feeling comforted, they're feeling cozy, they're feeling nourished, they're feeling taken care of, they're feeling like they're home.
Allegra Taylor (56:27)
Yeah.
Jaime McClintock (56:45)
As we wrap, tell us how you brought that into Kindred Roots' physical space.
Allegra Taylor (56:49)
I say that all I wanted when people came into Kindred Roots physical space was to feel like they were in the coziest part of their home, whether it was like a living room or like a shared family area. And when I think of kitchens, I think of like when you host people and everyone tends to like congregate in the kitchen and you have people kind of like sitting at an island or at a kitchen table and there's some people eating or cooking, been talking and it's just really like free flowing and comfortable that like
that same energy is what I wanted the healing hub and Ok Toks to feel like and I think that it genuinely does. And when I look back at it, I realized that like, yes, I wanted it for the clients, but I actually really wanted it for myself too because I knew that I would do my best work if it felt comfortable being there. So yeah, I remember when I first heard this from you, like I was like dying laughing. So was like, that's so accurate. Like, and of course it would be kitchens and like, I'm a foodie, whatever, judge me.
Jaime McClintock (57:42)
Thank you.
Yeah, I love it. Well, I look forward to continuing to walk through this. As we build coaching containers, this stuff does all translate into things that we can use and tie forward and bring forward through our work as well. And so I look forward to doing more deep dives and education sessions with people to learn how to bring this stuff all forward.
Allegra Taylor (57:49)
you
Me too, I'm so excited and I'm so lucky to have you in my corner through this entire process and also watch your evolution of your career within the same timeframes and yeah, for anyone listening who felt like they wanted this sort of like realization for themselves, like there is real things coming from Jamie and I that I say stay tuned and watch and thank you for challenging me to be more open and yeah, I hope that anything I shared today is
is eye-opening for someone or that you can now understand why human design plays so well in therapy and how it can really open conversations that are hard to get to otherwise. So thank you.
Jaime McClintock (58:49)
Beautiful. Okay, thank you.
